Discussion On Sri Gurvastakam, 6-9

(Meditation Center, Germany,
December 3, 2000, am)


nikunja-yuno rati-keli-siddhyai
ya yalibhir yuktir apeksaniya
tatrati-daksyad ati-vallabhasya
vande guroh sri-caranaravindam

Radha and Krishna both, conjugal, always playing in the groves of beautiful Vrindavana, on the bank of Yamuna, always. The gopis under the guidance of Rupa-manjari, Rati-manjari, are very expert to make meeting of Radha and Krishna. Without their help, They cannot meet. So all the gopis, like all the gopis, my gurudeva is expert. What expert? He can cheat husbands of gopis. Very expert in cheating others. Also to Candravali and others, those who are of another group. And to [arrange the] meeting of Radhika with Krishna, and Krishna with Radha. Very expert. He can discover new, new things to cheat them, so Radha and Krishna can meet. So he's expert in all these things. Who? Our gurudeva. And that is why my gurudeva in that shape, gopi [form], oh, he's most dear to Radha and Krishna, especially bending more towards Radhika.

So Krishna likes so much, to that very gurudeva I'm doing vandana. You should know the symptoms of gurudeva, how high [he is]. Any worldly person who has lust and is falling down moment by moment is not guru. Anyhow if you have accepted a guru like this, give up at once these fallen gurus. Always going to cinemas, impersonalist colleges and universities, boycott them. They have no trust in name, they have no trust in their gurudeva's line. They have no
faith, no strong faith that our gurudeva can give everything, eternal bliss, everything he can give. That [so-called] guru should be given up totally.

And those who have taken sannyasa, but even they are now entangled in sense gratifications, oh, totally they should not be seen. Out of our sight they should be. They can't give anything. Can you accept a fruit from any thorn tree? Can you expect any fruit from bubble tree? Bubble tree you
know?

Devotees: Thorn-bush.

Srila Narayana Maharaja: Can you imagine a fruit from stones? Never. So they can't give anything. They will destroy your life, as they have destroyed their lives. Many know that if they are not qualified to give Krishna-prema, they should be given up.

This ('nikunja yuno') is told for a guru like Narada Rsi. A guru in three stages can give Krishna prema. First murcchit-kasaya, nirdhut-kasaya, and parsada. What is the meaning? In first stage Narada Rsi was doing aradhana of Krishna. And he gave up all his desires totally, and he was absorbed.

In a glance Krishna gave him darsana for a moment, and then He disappeared. He began to cry and weep, "I cannot save my life without You." An aerial voice came and told that, "Out of pity, mercy, I have given you one glance of darsana. Now you are not qualified. You have some desires. So you cannot have My darsana."

And he's called murcchit-kasaya. There is some desire. What? He thought that 'if I will go to a forest in a very lonely place, and I will do aradhana, and I will be matured, and Krishna will come and show, give me His darsana.'

Oh, this is not good, that you will go alone in forest. And what you will do? Only sattvika banavasa (desire to reside in the mode of goodness in a solitary forest) may come. But not anything. You should depend on Krishna totally, and then Krishna may come. So this is murcchit-kasaya. Murcchit-kasaya means there are some unwanted thing, some desires but they are not working [active], they are like sleeping, but at any time they may come. Like Bharata Maharaja, murcchit-kasaya, and he had worldly pity, mercy, to an animal, a deer, and he became deer. So this is murcchit-kasaya.

There was something but it was not obvious, but it may be, in some context it may come, and these unwanted things may manifest, and then you will take three births, like Bharata Maharaja. So Narada also, in first stage he was
murcchit-kasaya, there were some desires, but they were not working, but if some ladies had come, very beautiful, and danced against him, naked, oh, he may be.

Brajanatha Prabhu: Fallen.

Srila Narayana Maharaja: Sukadeva Gosvami, in second stage, nirdhut-kasaya. What is nirdhut-kasaya? Nirdhut, all has been washed, totally, completely washed. But no svarupa is there. Understand? No Krishna association, form, is there. So he's nirdhut-kasaya. Now he's so qualified that any desires cannot come and he cannot go down, never fall.

Aranya Maharaja: Has he realized his svarupa, but not attained that svarupa?

Srila Narayana Maharaja: Yes. He realizes his svarupa, but he is still, his body, this body is not transcendental. But it is like transcendental. And more than that. Narada in third stage. What? In third stage he again took the darsana of Krishna and he got vastu siddhi, and he received his transcendental associates body. Like in the shape of Madhumangala. Like Narada-gopi, and he was in

Goloka Vrindavana. He can go anywhere with Krishna, without Krishna, everywhere. If he will tell that, "Oh, Krishna-prema should come." Oh, at once, quickly, in a second Krishna-prema will come. Also Sukadeva Gosvami may tell. It will come, but it may take one, two, three minutes. And Narada in first stage, what [will be]? Oh, he will touch, he will give his blessings and then it [Krishna-prema] may come. For them it is possible that Krishna-prema they can give.

Those who are lower than this, they can help some. If anyone is of madhyama-uttama or madhyama-madhyama, and is a really sincere vaisnava, no worldly desires, but some desires maybe [there] like murcchit, latent, dormant. Then he may tell harikatha so much, and thus by helping him, all unwanted desires he may take, and he will help them to proceed further, further, further, up to whatever stage he's in. These gurus (madhyama-madhyama & madhyama-uttama) are available in this world.

A guru like the three types of guru I have described are very rare, by the mercy of Krishna they can come and help you. But generally this type of madhyama-adhikari, sincere, and following their gurudeva, serving their gurudeva, there is no chance to fall down, they are so sincere, but they are in murcchit stage, they are in latent stage. They can help us so much. These are gurus. And through them we can have Krishna-prema, and they are like this ' nikunja-yuno rati-keli-siddhyai.' They have not received their transcendental svarupa. Understand? Svarupa means constitutional form. But yet they are up to bhava, and in bhava-avasta they are remembering all these things. And they are practicing all these things in the guidance of Visakha, Lalita, or Rupa-manjari, always remembering asta-kaliya-lila. Asta-kaliya-lila means eight.

Madhava Maharaja: Eight-folded pastimes of Krishna.

Srila Narayana Maharaja: Always remembering, and they can give. So he's telling for a guru like this. His guru was like this. All acaryas in our line of rupanuga are or were like this. If a guru is not expert in this how he can give Krishna-prema? This is called Krishna-prema. So if by chance, by mistake, you have accepted any guru like that. Like what? Always falling down, always they have so much desires for three W's, and sense gratifications, and especially attached to money, matter, and all these things.

And at that time you could not realize, now you are seeing that your guru is going to university of impersonalists, you are seeing that my gurudeva is going to cinema, here and there, and he's always seeing video and television, like how election is going, and how Clinton is going to be seconded. How both are quarrelling. Always very interested in these [politics]. Oh, that guru should be at once rejected if you want Krishna-prema, bhakti. At once, without delay reject him. If you are not doing so, then your guru and yourself are going to hell. This is true. So you should follow these things. If you have anyhow accepted [a lower-class guru], but now you are knowing, that that guru will not work, that they cannot give fruit of Krishna-prema, then why you delay? At once you should try to accept new guru because Jiva Gosvami has told, sastra, Srimad-Bhagavata has told.

Madhava Maharaja: Purnas ca vidhina samyak grahyet vaisnava guru.

Srila Narayana Maharaja: If you are seeing that your gurudeva is not following his gurudeva, and his gurudeva was bona fide guru, qualified like this [qualified how Visvanatha Cakravarti Thakura has written]. But you are seeing that he is against these things, not following, he has so many, one, two, three, four, maybe, lady friends, always taking money, and he's doing nonsense, then we should reject him. If you are honest, if you are sincere, you should do at once. If your gurudeva, at that time you accepted him unknowingly, and he's madhyama-adhikari, he's sincere but not expert in these things, nikunja yuno rati keli siddhyai, then you should do pranama to your gurudeva and ask, "Oh, please allow me that I can associate with high class of vaisnavas." Oh, guru will be very happy, very happy, "Oh, at once I'm giving this order. You should go. And myself, also I will go there."

Then he's guru, you should not give him up, but you should associate with higher class of guru, giving honor to this gurudeva. But if gurudeva is not giving honor, then he's very selfish. He thinks that my disciples are my property, and that is why if he [disciple] will go to another person, then 'my property is going to them'. So he will fear. But real guru will not fear. He will see that, "Oh, my disciples are going, becoming advanced." So he will be very happy. "If anyone is helping my disciple and he is making him madhyama-adhikari, then uttama-adhikari, and like this, oh, I will be very happy, very happy that he's helping him." And Swamiji was like this. That is why he told that, "My disciples should associate with high class of vaisnavas." So many times he has written here and there. Especially you should read his Upadesamrta, Nectar of Instruction, especially in 8th sloka, 'tan-nama-rupa-caritadi-sukirtananu' he has explained very clearly.

So you should see all these things, and then associate with guru. If guru is not as qualified as I have told, giving honor to him, you should try to associate with a guru who is fully qualified. If your guru is not giving honor, not allowing us to associate with higher vaisnavas, then reject him and go. Because you have left your homes, your wife, your wealth, reputation, everything, for what? Not for these classes of bogus gurus. But we have left all these things for Krishna's service, and if anyone is not engaging us in Krishna consciousness, then how he's guru? He's not guru.

Devotees: Kangaroo, trying to fill his pocket.

Srila Narayana Maharaja: They are telling kangaroo, not guru. So in this sloka it has been clearly explained the symptom of a very realized guru. If no realized guru is received, then we should go to even a madhyama-adhikari who is sincere, and who has no worldly desires of anything. Then you can develop. Then, in any way, you will have that real guru when Krishna arranges.

saksad-dharitvena samasta-sastrair
uktas tatha bhavyata eva sadbhih
kintu prabhor yah priya eva tasya
vande guroh sri-caranaravindam

I'm doing vandana to that same guru, who is like that, nikunja-yuno. And that guru who is qualified for this, nikunja-yuno rati-keli siddhyai, oh he is himself Krishna, Bhagavan, Hari. Hari means he can attract Krishna and can control Krishna even. But not visaya Krishna, but asraya Krishna. There are two kinds of Bhagavan, Hari. Visaya Hari and asraya Hari. Oh this guru is Hari, but what kind of asraya-guru? Kintu prabhor yah priya eva tasya, very much dear to Prabhu, Krishna. He is not Krishna, but of Krishna. Understand? A guru will not tell that, "I'm Krishna." Instead, "I'm the servant of Krishna." But he's like Hari, he has all the qualities of Hari in him. If a guru is having all the qualities of Krishna, how he can fall down? Never. So you should think that how highest class a guru is.

Guru is not a toy, not an ordinary toy, not an ordinary person. Guru is himself Krishna, but asraya Krishna. Srimati Radhika is Krishna. Krishna has divided himself into two, one is called Radhika and one is called Krishna. So She, Radhika, is asraya, so guru is asraya, especially the maidservants of Srimati Radhika. So she can be told 'saksad-dharitvena', not 'hari' but 'haritvena.' There is much difference between 'hari' and haritvena.' Krishna is Himself Hari, and haritvena means having the qualities of Hari, of Radhika, having the qualities of Radhika. So he is asraya-guru. All the epics, sastra, Gita, Bhagavata, Purana, all has told like this.

'Uktas tatha bhavyata eva sadbhih'. All the sadbhih, all the acaryas, all the transcendental bhaktas, they have accepted this theory ' kintu prabhor yah priya', that he is very beloved of Krishna.

yasya prasadad bhagavat-prasado
yasyaprasadan na gatih kuto 'pi
dhyayan stuvams tasya yasas tri-sandhyam
vande guroh sri-caranaravindam

The mercy of gurudeva is the mercy of Krishna, no difference. Krishna is merciful, gurudeva is merciful. But all the mercy of Krishna in a body is gurudeva. So he is more merciful than Krishna. He can come to us, he can give
classes to us, he can love us, he can save us. Oh, Krishna will not come. He will send this guru. His mercy is that He will send a very qualified guru. A guru is his mercy. So the mercy of Krishna is not independent. Dependent upon
the mercy of gurudeva and vaisnavas.

What I told?

Devotee: That Krishna's mercy is not independent, it is dependent upon the mercy of guru and vaisnavas.

Srila Narayana Maharaja: Yes. Understand?

Brajanatha Prabhu: Without gurudeva we cannot receive Krishna's mercy

Srila Narayana Maharaja: Not only gurudeva, all the vaisnavas, rupanuga-vaisnavas, all are guru, all are guru. All are qualified like this. They can take the mercy of Krishna and control, and by control rate, oh, they may give to others. Krishna cannot do the same. He has empowered guru to do so. So Krishna's mercy is dependent upon the mercy of guru and vaisnavas. If sometimes Krishna is unhappy, He is angry, He is not showering His mercy, then guru can pray Him and His mercy maybe achieved. But if guru is unhappy, Krishna cannot do anything.

You know Ambarisa Maharaja and Durvasa. Durvasa came and disturbed Ambarisa Maharaja, and when he ran away from there and went to Brahma, Visnu, Mahesh, but anyone could not help. They told that, "You should again go to Ambarisa Maharaja. Where a thorn is stuck, from there it can come out. If it is in feet, it will not come from head. So you must go to Ambarisa Maharaja. So he went there and then he was free.

So 'yasyaprasadan na gatih kuto 'pi'. If guru is not happy, then Krishna cannot help you. So anyone cannot help you. If guru is of that class. What class? That I told. He can give Krishna-prema. He must be madhyama-uttama. At least madhyama-madhyama, sincere, no worldly desires, no sense gratification. Even that mercy can come. How it will come? You know that mercy comes through vaisnavas. If you are serving a kula-guru.

Devotees: Family guru.

Srila Narayana Maharaja: Family guru, you know. And he's sincere, but his guru is not qualified. But he's sincere, and wants to serve Krishna, but he has not received any qualified guru. So up to that he is sincere, and he's chanting something, but his mind is going here and there. Even a person who has a madhyama-guru, he wants to remove all his worldly desires but he cannot.

Even if you are serving that guru, and he is giving classes to you, and so many good things, Krishna's mercy can come through him. But not high class of mercy will come. Like vaidhi-bhakti, like worldly things you can have, even mukti you can have, but not Krishna-prema. You know there is a sloka in Gita. What's that? Those who are serving all demigods.

ye 'py anya-devata-bhakta
yajante sraddhayanvitah
te 'pi mam eva kaunteya
yajanty avidhi-purvakam
(Gita 9.23)

["Those who are devotees of other gods and who worship them with faith actually worship only Me, O son of Kunti, but they do so in a wrong way." (BBT)]

If anyone is worshiping demigods, like Sankara, like Ganesh, like Hanuman, like others, then Krishna gives some fruits which those demigods cannot give. Krishna is giving. How? Krishna is telling that ye 'py anya-devata-bhakta yajante sraddhayanvitah. They have some sraddha to that demigod, and that demigod can give some money, reputation, worldly things they can give. But really Krishna is giving through them, because there is some honor to them.
And demigods are what? Only the vibuti to Krishna. He has engaged them to give all these things. So Krishna may give something, but not Krishna-prema. Even not that sraddha. But something will come through them [demigods].

So if anyone is serving their kula-guru, that is there family-guru, a guru like this, something can be achieved through Krishna. But if a really sincere guru is there, at least madhyama-adhikari, having no worldly desires, of if any guru is like Narada [first stage], Sukadeva Gosvami and third- stage Narada, then what to tell. So if Krishna is angry, a guru can save. But if guru is angry, then Krishna cannot save. He will tell that, "You should go there. I cannot do. I have given my heart to that class of devotee." What sloka?

Madhava Maharaja:

sadhavo hrdayam mahyam
sadhunam hrdayam tv aham
mad-anyat te na jananti
naham tebhyo manag api
(SB 9.4.68)

["The devotees are always in My heart, and I am always in the hearts of the devotees. The devotee does not know anything beyond Me, and I also cannot forget the devotee. There is a very intimate relationship between Me and the pure devotees. Pure devotees in full knowledge are never out of spiritual touch, and therefore they are very much dear to Me." (BBT)]

Srila Narayana Maharaja: So you should try to have a guru, association like this. Then you can have Krishna-prema, otherwise not. A guru who is falling down, always, always, always, who has no faith in his guru and nama, that name can give. Even a name in reverse, like 'Mara, mara, mara, maram.' Valmiki was chanting this, and what it became? 'Rama Rama'. By chanting reverse name, and what became? Oh he became pure. Still we worship Valmiki [even though he chanted reverse name in the beginning]. And if with sraddha anyone is doing? Then what will be?

jayati jayati namananda-rupam murare-
viramita-nija-dharma-dhyana-pujadiyatnam
katham api sakrdattam muktidam praninam yat
paramamrtam ekam jivanam bhusanam me
(Sri Brhad-Bhagavatamrtam 1.9)

["All glories, all glories to Krishna-Murari's name, the embodiment of divine bliss! It halts the cycle of birth and death and relieves one of all painful endeavors in practicing religion, meditation, charity, deity worship, and austerity. It awards liberation to one who utters it even once. Krishna-nama stands alone as the supreme nectar and sole treasure of my life." (Giti-guccha)]

nama cintamanih krsnas
caitanya-rasa-vigrahah
purnah suddho nitya-mukto
'bhinnatvan nama-naminoh
(Cc. Madhya 17.133)

["The holy name of Krishna is transcendentally blissful. It bestows all spiritual benedictions, for it is Krishna Himself, the reservoir of all pleasure. Krishna's name is complete, and it is the form of all transcendental mellows. It is not a material name under any condition, and it is no less powerful than Krishna Himself. Since Krishna's name is not contaminated by the material qualities, there is no question of its being involved with maya. Krishna's name is always liberated and spiritual; it is never conditioned by the laws of material nature. This is because the name of Krishna and Krishna Himself are identical." (BBT)]

You should try to remember these slokas and their meanings. Nama cintamani. O Krishna name, especially this 'Hare Krishna' is like cintamani, desire tree. If you have any desire under the shade of desire tree, oh, it will automatically come. You should know a history. There was a king, and he went hunting. Until evening he was hunting and doing and now he was very thirsty and very hungry, and he was tired, but in time, night came at once. And tigers and all the wild beasts were there, roaring here and there. Then he thought that where to go and to take shelter. By chance where he was there was a desire tree. "Oh, I'm very hungry, and night is coming, so something should come here to quench my thirst and hunger." At once a dish of very delicious preparations came and water, very good scented water. And he took, now he thought, "Oh, if there was any cot to sleep, I may sleep." At once a very good palanka, bed, with all kinds of facility, came. And he was on the bed, and he slept. But in the meantime some tigers were roaring very near by, and he woke up. "Oh, if a tiger comes, what will be?" And he saw that tiger came. "Oh, if he will eat me," and at once he jumped and ate him.

Devotees: (laughter)

Srila Narayana Maharaja: This is worldly desire tree, but that desire tree, desire tree of Krishna is not like this. Any transcendental desire, "I want to serve Radhika. I want to serve Krishna. I want Krishna-prema, gopi-prema even, a prema like manjaris, like Rupa and Raghunatha dasa, so that kind of prema can come in me." So these classes of gurus are like desire trees.

yasya prasadad bhagavat-prasado
yasyaprasadanna-gatih kuto 'pi

You see Raghunatha dasa Gosvami, he had in his childhood, he had association of Haridasa Thakura. Haridasa Thakura is siksa-guru. First guru is Yadunandana Acarya. He was the disciple of Advaita Acarya, in that line. He was also a bona fide guru. And then by his mercy Raghunatha dasa jumped and came to Nityananda Prabhu, and he received the mercy of Nityananda Prabhu, and then by the mercy of Nityananda Prabhu he received the mercy of Caitanya Mahaprabhu. Caitanya Mahaprabhu handed him over to Svarupa Damodara, and Svarupa Damodara is now his guru. What guru? All guru. More superior than Yadunandana Acarya, more superior than Haridasa Thakura. And what he received from these desire trees? The dasya of Radhika. He engaged him, and if something was lacking, then he came to Rupa Gosvami, and Rupa Gosvami gave everything, like him, and then he became Rati-manjari. So this is the qualification of gurudeva.

You should also know that any devotee who is sadhaka, practitioner, he cannot be in one position all the time. If a river is going on, she cannot be at one place all the time. The water in which we are taking bath, the next moment it will go further, further, further, until it reaches the sea. So bhakti is like a river. If any practitioner is practicing bhakti, sravanam, kirtanam, visnu smaranam, he must go up. If a man is always in one place, what will be? If he's not associating with high class, higher class, higher class, how he will go? He cannot go. And that is why if a person has left his worldly, all his worldly things, all worldly requirements, but he has not received any high class of association, and he has no taste for that, then he will fall down. He's bound to fall down. So try to have a guru, a vaisnava, like this.

Then ' dhyayam stuvams tasya yasas tri-sandhyam.' Oh, you should try to pray, doing ardhana, meditating three times. This means always, whole day and night. Vande guroh sri-caranaravindam.

'Srimad guror-astakam etad uccair brahme muhurte.' In Brahma-muhurta, from three in morning. That is brahma muhurta in morning, especially before sunrise, one hour and thirty minutes. But Rupa-Sanatana and others like Haridasa Thakura, they had no sleep at any time. Only one hour, or not more than that. Sometimes nothing, no sleeping. So we should try to be like that and to serve a gurudeva like that. Then if anyone is doing and praying like this, having the meaning and mood of these slokas, then yastena vrndavana-natha. Who is Vrindavana-natha? Krishna Himself. Oh, saksat sevaiva, oh saksat, direct service of Krishna. What is? Like gopis, he can attain that. We should try to be like that.

We have come here. I am very happy, and I am requesting you to give up all your worldly desires. It is very hard to give up sense gratification, all these things. But with the association of high class vaisnavas, you can give up sense gratifications. So I told you last day (yesterday), that try to do, whatever you do, do to please first guru and vaisnavas, and then to Krishna. Whatever you do. Don't eat for yourself, eat for guru-vaisnava service, for Krishna service. If you are going to be expert in anything, then what you should see? Oh, will it please my gurudeva and vaisnavas or not? But we are not doing. And that is why we are not developing.

We should not carry the order of our uncontrolled mind, but yet we are doing.

Devotees: Following our minds.

Srila Narayana Maharaja: This is the root cause. We are like orderly of who? Of mind, of uncontrolled mind. Sometimes he advises very bad things and we are bound to do. But you should not listen and hear the orders of uncontrolled mind. Try to hear all the gurus like Visvanatha Cakravarti Thakura, Narottama Thakura, Rupa-Sanatana, Rupa-Raghunatha and all others. Try to give up all these worldly things as they are like sweet poisons. So try to give up sweet rasagula which is poisoned by snakes, and thus try to control them. If anything you are reading, go deep, and try to pray to them (the authors) that they should be merciful to us. Now it is time.

[some discussion about time]

[Bhakta Svarupa asks question in background about murcchit-kasaya which is hard to hear]

Srila Narayana Maharaja: You should try to listen and try to associate with others. What I'm telling, oh, sometimes it will be a very, very hard thing and difficult to realize. You can be misguided. You can misunderstand what I'm telling. Now some are going to be misguided by what Swamiji told. They will misunderstand him. They are trying to fulfill his external desires, not his internal desires. He never told anyone to criticize anyone. Even if anyone is bad, but we should not criticize. He has told like this, to never criticize anyone. So we should try to realize his orders, his teachings and then follow his internal desires. First internal desires, and then external desires. Not only his external desires. He has not told that you should distribute books only. He has told that you should first read and follow and then this nectar should be given to all. In this way.

So my request is also that so many books are coming, they are very, very helpful, very helpful. As Swamiji and my gurudeva ordered, all the books are coming. You should try to help me in my guru-seva and Krishna-seva. You should try to help me in my guru-service and Krishna-service. How? By distributing these books. By practicing bhakti-yoga, and thus you can help me. You should translate my books, you should publish them and try to distribute them. If there are so many devotees here, about more than 200, 250 you are. If ten books are given by you to others, then how many books will be gone? I think that you should make such distribution of my Rays of Harmonist. It is very useful, very useful. It has very simple teachings of Srila Bhaktivinoda Thakura, Srila Prabhupada, of Rupa Gosvami, of Swamiji, of my gurudeva and other realized souls. So you should try to preach and to distribute these books also. Nagar-sankirtana should not be stopped.

Aranya Maharaja: Yesterday we did nagar-sankirtana, and we distributed books.

Srila Narayana Maharaja: I became very happy to hear this. If I was okay, I should have gone. I am like a commander. As I usually do in my Vraja-mandala-parikrama, especially Navadvipa-parikrama, here and there. So you should try to do. Don't neglect all these things. It will increase your bhakti.

Gaura-premanande!

Devotees: Hari Haribol!

[name of new initiate given]

Devotee: May I ask one question.

Srila Narayana Maharaja: Very quickly. I have no time.

Devotee (very hard to hear on tape):

Srila Narayana Maharaja: What telling?

Brajanatha Prabhu: Certain gurus, they tell you, "I am not really bona fide, but I will take you to my gurudeva, and he is bona fide and he will help you."

Srila Narayana Maharaja: You should test that guru also. Don't believe.

Brajanatha Prabhu: The guru may not be present physically.

Srila Narayana Maharaja: Oh, this is, now they are discovering rtvik. You should try to be very far away from these bogus and notorious rtviks. They are Kali-yuga guru. They will destroy your life. When they were misguided, and they gave up their guru's line, and they accepted so many ladies, and they were fallen down. Now they want the same position, and that is why they are telling, "Oh, I am now rtvik, and follow me," and they want that position. But you should know that they are bogus persons, and they are not guru. In our line, there it is never accepted this rtvik line. Rtvik is simply a sacrifice by one person. He knows some rules and regulations of fire sacrifice, and for this, for worldly desires they are doing it (presiding over fire sacrifice). They have nothing to do with siksa-guru, bhagavata-guru, parampara-guru, diksa-guru. They are not accepted as real gurus. So these rtviks are bogus persons, don't believe in them, don't associate with them. They are bogus ones, and they now want again position, and for this they are doing. So be careful for these persons.

Madhava Maharaja: Gaura-premanande!

Devotees: Hari Haribol!

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