De Glind, Holland June 9, 2003
Tridandisvami Sri Srimad Bhaktivedanta Narayana Maharaja
Srila Bhaktivedanta Narayana Maharaja spent a week in Holland on his
recent world tour. During that week he gave classes in the evenings
and during the day met with small groups of devotees and worked on
his translation of Srila Sanatana Gosvami's Sri Brhat-Bhagavatamrta.
On four occasions he came out of his room at about 11AM and sat on a
chair on the lawn. On those occasions he was at once surrounded by
over 100 devotees who sat around him and began asking a myriad of
questions. The following is one of those "lawn darsanas":]
[Srila Narayana Maharaja:] Srimati Radhika and all the gopis
are most beautiful. If one sees them he will die, because he will
change his body and go to Goloka Vrndavana. This material body will
not survive because it is not able to take darsana of the
transcendental world. That is why during the night there are no
monkeys in Vrndavana Seva Kunja, the place of rala-lila. If anyone
goes there he must die or become mad. He will be speechless; he will
not be able to converse in an ordinary way with anyone.
[Harernamananda dasa:] Sometimes, when a pujari performs puja to the
deities or a devotee prays to the deities, he has a small glimpse of
[Srila Narayana Maharaja:] Only Srila Rupa
Gosvami, Srila Sanatana Gosvami or Srila Gopala Bhatta Gosvami can
have this; we devotees can never have it. One may pose that, "I have
seen Radha and Krsna", but such an attainment will never be possible
for a conditioned soul.
[Harernamananda dasa:] So it is
a mistaken impression?
[Srila Narayana Maharaja:] Yes.
Only Srila Rupa Gosvami and Srila Sanatana Gosvami can see Them. Once
they were talking to each other about the sweet pastimes of Srimati
Radharani and Sri Krsna, and as the time passed it became after 12pm.
Srimati Radharani Herself came to them as an ordinary girl but
extremely beautiful and said to them, "You are fasting; may I cook
for you?" Because they paid no attention to Her She then said, I
will cook. You are so busy in your discussion. She blew on some
pieces of wood, the wood ignited at once, and the prasadam was
prepared in a second. Then She said to them, "You should take this
prasadam. I have to go now; otherwise My mother will be angry. In
this way both Rupa Gosvami and Srila Sanatana Gosvami got a glimpse
of Srimati Radhika.
[Bhaktisiddhanta dasa:] What is the
taste of that prasadam prepared by Srimati Radharani?
[Srila Narayana Maharaja:] It cannot be told by the tongue. If your
tongue tastes it, you will not be able to speak. Even liberated
persons like Lord Brahma and Lord Sankara, and even Sri Narada Muni,
they cannot see the beauty of Srimati Radhika and Sri Krsna. Only
Their sakhis can see Them.
[Devotee:] Some devotees say
they have had a glimpse.
[Srila Narayana Maharaja:]
They are mad and they are liars. The material body of a person with
such a glimpse would not remain alive.
dasa:] Some devotees say that when they see the deities, the deities
sometimes speak to them.
[Srila Narayana Maharaja:]
They want to cheat you. If one is qualified to see Srimati Radhika,
there will be some symptoms. All his worldly desires will be gone,
his past, present and future karma will also disappear at once, and
all his ignorance will be gone. How will such a person survive in
this bogus body? He will at once appear there in Goloka Vrndavana.
Some say, "I have seen Radha and Krsna"; but then, after some time,
those same persons are pursuing ladies. They become mad for ladies.
It is not at all possible for these two types of consciousness to
[Harernamananda dasa:] So it is only
[Srila Narayana Maharaja:] Its not
imagination. It is a motive to cheat others. If a man has seen
Srimati Radhika and Sri Krsna he will not say, "I have seen." Srila
Rupa Gosvami will not say, "Come on, come on. I have seen".
[Bhaktisiddhanta dasa:] What is our aspiration in this body,
because if we get that vision we are dead.
Narayana Maharaja:] No one can realize Srimati Radhika by these
material eyes, mouths and hands. She is everywhere, like Krsna; but
only when, by sadhana, one reaches the stages of bhava, and then
reaches prema, sneha, maan, pranaya, raga, anuraga and mahabhava can
She be realized. Even Srimati Rukmini devi and Srimati Satyabauma
devi cannot have Her darsana, and even Lord Brahma, Lord Rudra, Srila
Sukadeva Gosvami, Narada Muni and Bhisma-pitamaha cannot have Her
darsana. Her darsana is not an ordinary attainment.
[Bhaktisiddhanta dasa:] Is it a question of all or nothing? Or do the
glimpse darsanas gradually increase to full darsana?
[Srila Narayana Maharaja:] In this world, by this body and these
eyes, no one can have darsana even in a dream. When one reaches the
stage of bhava-bhakti and experiences visuddha-sattva bhava, then, as
a glimpse, you can see the shadow of Srimati Radhika; otherwise not.
[Devotee:] What is a sphurti?
Narayana Maharaja:] Srimati Radhika has sphurtis of Lord Krsna; you
and I do not. She has a sphurti when she sees a tamala tree and
thinks that Sri Krsna has come. Sometimes She becomes like a mad
person, thinking He has come, but He has not. She will say, "Who has
covered My eyes? I thought Krsna was here." This is a sphurti.
Sometimes the mother of Sri Caitanya Mahaprabhu, Srimati Sacimata
prepares an abundance of prasadam and weeps, "My son is not here to
take it". In the meantime Sri Caitanya Mahaprabhu comes from
Jagannatha Puri and takes everything prepared, but still she thinks,
"Today I have not cooked" and she cooks again. This is called a
sphurti, and it is seen at a very elevated stage of
[Devotee:] What are we praying for when we say
[Srila Narayana Maharaja:] We should
pray, "O Krsna, I am full of anarthas and aparadhas, unwanted habits
and mentalities. Please remove these impediments so that I can chant
pure harinama." Then, when suddha-nama manifests you can pray, "O
Krsna, I want to serve You and Srimati Radhika." Then pray to Srila
Rupa Gosvami, or Sri Rupa Manjari, and others, "Please give me the
association of elevated rasika Vaisnavas like Srila Rupa Gosvami,
Srila Raghunatha dasa Gosvami, Srila Svarupa Damodara, Sri Raya
Ramananda and others." In this way, practicing from sraddha, from the
beginning of bhakti, a devotee will gradually realize the truths of
Krsna Consciousness. After thousands of births of practice he will be
very lucky to attain bhava-bhakti; and then one of the five rasas
(relationships with Lord Krsna) will manifest in his heart and he
will realize his siddha-svarupa (pure spiritual form). This is a very
[Bhaktisiddhanta dasa:] This is from
the mercy of the spiritual master.
Maharaja:] A spiritual master should realize all these stages; then
it will be by his mercy. Otherwise, if he is a madhyama-adhikari, he
cannot give such mercy. Even an uttama-adhikari like Srila Haridasa
Thakura may not be able to give this most rare type of vraja-bhakti.
He will say, "Go to Srila Rupa Gosvami. If you want
to chant pure harinama then please come to me; but for that
vraja-bhakti you will have to go to Srila Rupa Gosvami." He will not
give it himself, whereas Srila Raghunatha dasa Gosvami and Srila
Svarupa Damodara can give it. There are sections, or divisions, of
all the stages within pure bhakti.
dasa:] How is it that we have so many questions in our minds, and
then when we come in your presence we forget them?
[Srila Narayana Maharaja:] And when I tell my disciples to stand up
and speak on a particular subject, they forget everything.
[Devotee:] Yesterday you were talking about diksa, but not
siksa. When I ask you to be my siksa-guru what does that mean?
[Srila Narayana Maharaja:] It means that you will have to
follow me in all respects. You should think about how I do bhajana,
what is my ideal, my siddhanta, and how I serve my Gurudeva and
follow that. Then you can see that, "He is my siksa-guru." For
example, Sri Caitanya Mahaprabhu put Srila Raghunatha dasa Gosvamis
hand into the hand of Sri Svarupa Damodara and told him, "You should
think that he is your siksa-guru" and he followed him totally. This
is siksa-guru. Siksa-guru is attained neither by fire sacrifice nor
by imitation. A boy used to sit with his father, and when his father
would chant and meditate on his gayatri mantras he would also sit
with him at that time. One day he imitated his father as he sat with
his eyes closed offering pranama. His father knew he was imitating
and he wanted to test him. So one day, when he was chanting his
mantras, he took his asana and circled it above his head five times.
began to do five times and his son also did it five times. He asked
his son, "What are you doing my dear son?" This is imitation, not
siksa. Siksa comes by an internal qualification.
[Devotee:] When a person has taken diksa from his guru, is it
possible that this connection can ever be broken?
[Srila Narayana Maharaja:] If the Guru is an uttama-bhakta Guru, the
relationship is transcendental and permanent. If he is not a realized
soul, if he has not realized Krsna or His prema and if he is not an
uttama-mahabhagavata, then it is not permanent.
[Bhakta-svarupa dasa:] We hear about Krsna's different flutes; like
murali, vamsi and venu. Can you give some
Narayana Maharaja:] Try to chant at least 64 rounds. Sixteen will not
suffice. Your mind should be concentrated. First do this, and then I
will tell you. A fruit takes time to grow on the tree, but you want
this highest attainment to come in your heart immediately. This is a
bogus idea. Krsna may give you a piece of stone instead, and all your
teeth will break. [This statement is meant to show that it is not to
ones spiritual advantage to ask questions above his level of
[Bhaktisiddhanta dasa:] I have a close
friend who left his body in Vrndavana a few days ago.
[Srila Narayana Maharaja:] Whether he was a sadhaka or not, a true
practitioner of bhakti or not, I cannot tell. We are not pure
sadhakas. Srila Bilvamangala Thakura is a sadhaka for love and
affection (prema-bhakti) and we are sadhakas to give up anarthas. At
this stage no one can have love and affection for Krsna or for Guru.
He will quarrel with his Guru and at the same time pose as a
[Bhaktisiddhanta dasa:] We were helping
Vrndavana dhama fixing it up. He was helping me.
[Srila Narayana Maharaja]: He was helping and serving you? Do you
have any realization of the love of Sri Krsna and Srimati
[Bhaktisiddhanta dasa:] Only through
[Srila Narayana Maharaja:] Then how will he be
more advanced than you?
[Bhaktisiddhanta dasa:] I was
wondering what happens to a person like that who leaves his body
there in Vrndavana.
[Srila Narayana Maharaja:]
hasaty atho roditi rauti gayaty
[By chanting the holy name of the Supreme
Lord, one comes to the stage of love of Godhead. Then the devotee is
fixed in his vow as an eternal servant of the Lord, and he gradually
becomes very much attached to a particular name and form of the
Supreme Personality of Godhead. As his heart melts with ecstatic
love, he laughs very loudly or cries or shouts. Sometimes he sings
and dances like a madman, for he is indifferent to public
Wherever the pure devotee hears the name of
Krsna and Radhika, tears will fall from his eyes, and he will faint
and roll down on the ground like Srila Raghunatha dasa Gosvami and
Srila Rupa Gosvami. You know the verses:
nidrahara-viharakadi-vijitau catyanta-dinau ca yau
radha-krsna-guna-smrter madhurimanandena sammohitau
rupa-sanatanau raghu-yugau sri-jiva-gopalakau
worship the Six Gosvamis, who passed all their time in chanting the
holy names, singing songs, and offering dandavat-pranama, thereby
humbly fulfilling their vow to complete a fixed number daily. In this
way they utilized their valuable lives and conquered over eating and
sleeping. Always seeing themselves as completely worthless, they
became enchanted in divine rapture by remembering Sri Radha-Krsna's
sweet qualities. (Sri Sad-Gosvami-astakam, verse 6)]
radhe vraja-devike ca lalite he nanda-suno kutah
sri-govardhana-kalpa-padapa-tale kalindi-vane kutah
iti sarvato vraja-pure khedair maha-vihvalau
rupa-sanatanau raghu-yugau sri jiva-gopalakau
doing vandana to the Six Gosvamis, who were always calling out, 'He
Radhe!' O Queen of Vrndavana! Where are You? He Lalite! O son of
Nanda Maharaja! Where are You? Are you seated beneath the kalpa-vrksa
trees of Sri Govardhana Hill? Or are you roaming in the forests along
the soft banks of the Kalindi?' They were always lamenting,
overwhelmed and burning in feelings of great separation as they
wandered throughout all Vraja-mandala." (Sri Sad-Gosvami-astakam,
These are the symptoms of a person advanced
[Bhaktisiddhanta dasa:] Srila Prabhupada
never showed the symptoms of ecstatic trance, but on occasion he
could not help but show it.
[Srila Narayana Maharaja:]
It may be that by his activities he showed his advancement, because
he attracted the entire world and translated so many bona fide books.
Though he showed no external symptoms of his ecstasy, he did what
would have been impossible for an ordinary person. Srila Rupa Gosvami
hardly ever showed external symptoms. Once, the other pure devotees
present with him were weeping by hearing the sweet Srimad-Bhagavatam
from the mouth of Srila Raghunatha Bhatta Gosvami, and some became
faint; but he sat with no symptoms. One of the devotees then came to
see what he was doing, and when he placed his hand in front of Srila
Rupa Gosvami's face, close to his mouth, the devotees entire body
was burnt from the extremely hot air that emanated from his mouth and
nostrils. This is real samadhi like that of the gopis and it is
very rare. If there is a small amount of water, even a little fish
can make it dirty. However, in a great ocean, even a big whale cannot
make an impression. Srila Rupa Gosvami is like an endless ocean, and
that mood is like a fish. So, sometimes you cannot see ecstatic
symptoms on the body of a pure devotee but his symptoms are
understood by his behavior.
So many saintly persons,
munis, and rsis try to chant Sri Krsna's name, but at the time of
death they call out, "I am dying, I am dying."
[Devotee:] Why did Srila Prabhupada say we can attain perfection in
[Srila Narayana Maharaja:] He said that
to inspire new persons, so they would not be discouraged. I also
speak in that way, but sometimes I tell the real truth. Now I am
telling the real truth. On the other hand, when I say that only one
utterance of the holy name will take you to Goloka Vrndavana, this is
Advisors: Pujyapada Madhava Maharaja and Sripad Brajanatha dasa
Transcriber: Vasanti dasi
Typist: Kanta dasi