Hilo, Hawaii: February 11, 2005
Tridandisvami Sri Srimad Bhaktivedanta Narayana Maharaja
[Just a small report first: Srila Narayana Maharaja is now in Penang,
and island in Malaysia. He is writing there and also taking advantage
of the ocean waters just outside his door. On the oppposite side of
the ocean is Jagannatha Puri, where Sri Caitanya Mahaprabhu himself
bathed daily. Srila Maharaja said he likes this place even better
than Hawaii, and wants to spend time here, perhaps twice a year.]
[Question:] In your class a few days ago you gave an analogy, saying
that the nature of the jiva is eternal and unchangeable, yet it becomes
distorted just like water changes to ice when the weather is
cold. But if the jivas nature is eternal and unchangeable, how
can it be distorted? Is it that it is covered by a distortion or does
the nature of the jiva itself become distorted?
[Srila Narayana Maharaja:] Waters nature is liquid, whether
it will be steam or ice. In some circumstances water becomes ice,
but even at that time water is dripping from the ice drop by drop.
Then, if heat is given, the ice will become liquid. When the water
becomes ice it is called nisarga, meaning that its nature is changed.
[Question:] Its nature is transformed?
[Srila Narayana Maharaja:] Yes, but the original transcendental nature
is the same. In the same way, jivas are servants of Krsna. They are
related to Krsna in one of the five rasas (relationships of neutrality,
servitorship, friendship, parenthood and conjugal lover). This is
forever unchangeable. An analogy is given of the seed of a mango,
neem and other trees that are planted on the bank of the Ganges. They
get the same water, the same air, the same sun and the same gardener,
but the seed determines the potency. The type of plant will be determined
only by the seed. It cannot be changed. Now, the conditioned living
entity is very attached to children, wife, etc. and he has innumerable
varieties of material thoughts. When he will be liberated however,
his constitutional form and relation to Krsna will manifest.
[Question:] The nature is unchangeable. So is it that the contaminated
consciousness of that nature is distorted? Im asking this because
if the nature is unchangeable, then it itself, cannot be distorted.
Is that correct?
[Srila Narayana Maharaja:] The jiva is partly independent. As Lord
Sri Krsna is fully independent, the jiva is partly independent. Krsna
does not control him. He has given the soul freedom, and that freedom
is a very valuable thing. Using that freedom, he can serve Krsna eternally,
and if he misuses it, then maya comes and covers his original nature.
[Question:] So to say that the souls nature is never distorted
itself, but it is covered by a distortion is more clear?
[Srila Naryana Maharaja:] Yes.
[Question:] When a lady becomes pregnant, her belly becomes big. She
has undergone transformation, but she is still the same. So how is
the transformation of the jiva
[Srila Naryana Maharaja:] There is no transformation of the jiva.
For the time being, its nature is changed by his independence. In
other words, maya covers him, and it seems like it has changed. But
when he will become liberated, then the original nature will appear.
[Question:] So he is covered by a distortion?
[Srila Narayana Maharaja:] He never changes. My Guru Maharaja used
to give the example of a watch. The watch is ticking and working,
but it is covered with a cloth. You cannot see it, but really the
watch is actually ticking and working; its hands are moving. Those
who are liberated can see the soul serving Krsna. Those who are here
in this world see others differently, and they see themselves differently.
Any worldly analogy or example wont be completely clear.
[Question:] Its the moon on the branch logic?*[see
[Srila Narayana Maharaja:] Yes
[Question:] Last night I believe I heard you say that if anyone has
an original constitutional position that is something other than unnatojjvala-rasam
sva-bhakti-sriyam (manjari bhava), still, Lord Caitanya is giving
him special mercy. If Lord Caitanya says we should pray for this,
and if all of our gurus say we should pray for this, then we would
be foolish not to take advantage of what they are telling us. Did
I hear you correctly?
[Srila Narayana Maharaja:] This can never be. Those who have that
constitution will be attracted to Sri Caitanya Mahaprabhu. Others
will not come.
[Question:] So all those who come to Lord Caitanya
[Srila Narayana Maharaja:] Even Krsna Himself will not change a souls
constitution. He is bound by rules and regulations.
[Question:] Im sorry. I could not hear everything, but I was
trying to listen carefully to all the classes. I did not understand
how the soul can go to two places. You say that we should be one-pointed.
Sripad Madhava Maharaja said in his class that the soul can go to
two places. I dont know what to think of this.
[Question:] It is said in Jaiva Dharma that when the soul becomes
liberated, it can go to Navadvipa and Goloka Vrndavana simultaneously.
[Srila Narayana Maharaja:] This refers to those whose nature is like
that. They want to serve Sri Caitanya Mahaprabhu and also Sri Sri
Radha-Krsna. They are like Lord Sri Krsna in the sense that Krsna
is everywhere, in so many forms. He can have millions of forms. Do
you understand? In rasa Krsna became millions. His liberated devotees
are so powerful that they can go here and there at the same time.
There are millions of manifestations of Nanda Baba not only
one. In millions of universes in millions of forms, these manifestations
are serving millions of manifestations of Sri Krsna.
[Question:] Should we still be one-pointed?
[Srila Narayana Maharaja:] Yes, still; because Sri Sri Radha-Krsna
and Sri Caitanya Mahaprabhu are the same.
[Question:] You gave me the name Latika dasi. Can you explain about
Latikas pastime as a sakhi? Sripad Madhava Maharaja was explaining
the types of sakhis.
[Srila Narayana Maharaja:] Dont be worried about this. Chant
and remember, and then gradually you will realize everything. At this
time there is no need to tell who you are. Everything will come. Dont
be concerned for now. If you can realize your transcendental form
in millions of lives, that will be considered a very short time. Such
a realization is very rare.
Dont be utsaha-mayi (with puffed-up enthusiasm). As soon as
one is initiated, he at once thinks, Tomorrow I will go to Goloka
Vrndavana. Everything will come in its time.
I am inviting you all to Navadvipa.
[Abhirama dasa:] Regarding the verse: tad-vijnanartham sa gurum evabhigacchet
samit-panih srotriyam brahma-nistham
[To understand these things properly, one must humbly approach,
with firewood in hand, a spiritual master who is learned in the Vedas
and firmly devoted to the Absolute Truth. (Mundaka Upanisad
It says one should come to sri guru with firewood for sacrifice. What
is that firewood for sacrifice?
[Srila Narayana Maharaja:] It implies sraddha, firm faith and surrender
to guru. At first, all gurus used to perform fire sacrifices. There
was no money like nowadays, and their disciples used to come with
firewood for use in their gurus sacrifice. [Nowadays disciples
bring money to construct temples and print books, which is all for
the benefit of others. This is compared with carrying the wood for
the fire sacrifice, which the spiritual master performed in order
to benefit the entire world.] Some used to bring cow ghee, because
the guru would have some cows in his asrama. In the course of carrying
the firewood, they had faith in their guru and the surrendered understanding
that, I must obey you. I have faith that you can liberate me
from this world.
*[endnote 1] Someone may ask, "Can you tell
me, where is the moon?" Another person may reply, "You can
see it there, on the branch." The moon is not on the branch.
It is millions of miles away, but some idea is given. The logic used
to understand that which is not within our understanding is thus called
sakha-candra-nyaya, the logic of the moon on the branch.
Editorial Advisors: Madhava Maharaja and Brajanatha Prabhu
Editor: Syamarani dasi
Transcriber and Proofreader: Vasanti dasi
Typist: Jaya Sri dasi