[Srila Narayana Maharaja:] Last night the subject was so deep that hardly anyone could understand it.

[Sripad Damodara Maharaja:] I could not understand one thing. You said something like: "If you put a pot in fire, then it can hold water". I could not understand this idea.

[Srila Narayana Maharaja:] If a pot-maker makes a pot made of clay, it cannot hold water. But if that pot is put in fire (baked in a kiln), then it becomes hard. At that time the water will not fall through the clay and the clay will not dissolve.

Earth is earth, the pot is also earth, coal is also from earth, and the diamond is also from earth.

[Damodara Maharaja:] All is from the same maya…

[Srila Narayana Maharaja:] This example is given to express the idea of sakti-parinam (transformation of Lord Sri Krsna's energies)

[Damodara Maharaja:] What does the fire represent?

[Srila Narayana Maharaja:] Fire is not always seen. Can you see fire here? Is there fire here or not? Where is it?

[Damodara Maharaja:] If you strike a match, the fire will manifest.

[Sripad Madhava Maharaja:] In our body…

[Srila Narayana Maharaja:] In trees…

[Damodara Maharaja:] Yes, it is latent.

[Srila Narayana Maharaja:] …Fire is everywhere, but it is not seen. Similarly the jiva, Goloka, Vaikuntha and all of the spiritual existences have come from cit-sakti, or antaranga-sakti, (the transcendental, internal potency of the Lord) They are not visible by these eyes. Only when, if they manifest themselves for some reason, can we see and know them.

Sri Krsna comes here for some reasons. What are those reasons?

[Damodara Maharaja:] Mercy…

[Srila Narayana Maharaja:] There are several reasons. One is:

yada yada hi dharmasya
glanir bhavati bharata
abhyutthanam adharmasya
tadatmanam srjamy aham

[Whenever and wherever there is a decline in religious practice, O descendant of Bharata, and a predominant rise of irreligion-at that time I descend Myself. (Bhagavad-gita, 4.7)]

[Damodara Maharaja:]
paritranaya sadhunam
vinasaya ca duskrtam
dharma-samsthapanarthaya
sambhavami yuge yuge

[In order to deliver the pious and to annihilate the miscreants, as well as to reestablish the principles of religion, I advent Myself millennium after millennium. (Bhagavad-gita, 4.8)]

[Srila Narayana Maharaja:] And?

"Dharma samsthapanarthaya (to establish religious principles)."

[Srila Narayana Maharaja:] More?

[Madhava Maharaja:] bhakti vinodaya – to please the devotees.

[Jayanta-Krsnadas:] Prema-vilasa (to exhibit loving pastimes).

[Srila Narayana Maharaja:] Why?

[Jayanta-Krsnadas:] To give a chance to the living beings to hear His pastimes.

[Srila Narayana Maharaja:] And especially...?

prema rasa niryasa korite asvadana
raga-marga bhakti loke korite pracarana

["The Lord's desire to appear was born from two reasons: the Lord wanted to taste the sweet essence of the mellow of love of God, and He wanted to propagate devotional service in the world on the platform of spontaneous attraction. Thus he is known as supremely jubilant and as the most merciful of all." (Caitanya-caritamrta Adi-lila 4. 16-17)]

[Srila Narayana Maharaja:] The cit-vastu, the spiritual or Absolute Entity (Sri Krsna, along with His incarnations and abodes) comes here for all these reasons. Cit-vastu is compared herein with fire – when something is burned for any reason, then we can see it. Similary we can see the cit-vastu when it manifests itself. It is like fire in that sense.

(Devotee:] And you compared the individual living being with water.

[Srila Narayana Maharaja:] Water is sometimes condensed, and sometimes hard like ice. The jiva is sometimes conditioned and sometimes liberated. But 'sometimes conditioned' does not mean he goes back and forth between the two. He is conditioned since time immemorial (time without calculable beginning).

[Damodara Maharaja:] He is beyond liberation and conditioning.

[Srila Narayana Maharaja:] Some jivas will be liberated, and some are always liberated – eternally. Actually they were never in bondage. The fact is that this bondage is also false.

[Damodara Maharaja:] It is like a dream.

[Srila Narayana Maharaja:] It is like a dream. You may dream, for example, that "Someone has cut off my head". When you come out from the dream, you see that nothing was done. So this material existence is like a dream.

The jiva is conscious. How can inert maya bind him? By your own will you are thinking that you are now in maya. You think, ”I am this body.” Has Krsna told you to say that you are this body?

[Devotees:] No.

[Srila Narayana Maharaja:] Then why do you do so? It is your wish – your independence.

[Damodara Maharaja:] The first verse in Srimad-Bhagavatam uses the terms anvaya and itaratas – direct and indirect.

[Srila Narayana Maharaja:] "Direct" means that He directly manifests Vaikuntha-jagat (the spiritual world) from cit-sakti (His transcendental potency). He manifests the jiva-jagat (the world of the living beings) from jiva-sakti, or tatastha-sakti (His marginal energy), and He manifests the maya-jagat (this world of inert matter) from maya-sakti (His deluding material potency).

How can a conscious being be controlled or influenced by maya? Being a transcendental entity (cit-vastu,) how can he be controlled by inert matter (acit-vastu)? How is this posible? This is due to the inconceivable potency (acintya-sakti) of Sri Krsna.

[Damodara Maharaja:] So this is the meaning of indirect.

[Srila Narayana Maharaja:] The word anvaya (direct), means that all potencies, like jiva-sakti, maya-sakti, and cit-sakti, all are coming directly from Lord Sri Krsna.

What does indirect mean? The jiva is superior to maya. But even so, he comes under its influence.

This subject is high. But a preacher should know all these philosophical truths, and that is why I am explaining it to you. After this, gradually some sweet, easy topics will be explained.

[Devotee:] Why has Krsna given us independent power?

[Srila Narayana Maharaja:] Why? Because He's independent. He does what He desires to do. “Why?” does not apply to Him. What He has done, He has done.

[Madhava Maharaja:] Independence is like a jewel.

[Sripad Brajanatha Prabhu:] Without this, there is no love and affection.

[Srila Narayana Maharaja:] Yesterday's class, regarding advaya-jnana-para tattva and the meaning of the first sloka of Srimad Bhagavatam was very deep. Still, all preachers should understand it, otherwise they cannot preach. After we complete the discussion of this topic, easy topics may come, but you should also know this topic.

Editorial Advisors: Sripad Madhava Maharaja and Sripad Brajanath dasa
Editor: Syamarani dasi
Transcriber: Krsna-vallabha dasi
Typist: Lalit-kishori dasi